Episode 2
Justice: TJ Gordon and Jaime Cornejo
Impact goes on the road to Chicago to talk with self-advocate, activist, and writer T.J. Gordon, who created a story map to highlight people with disabilities living in different neighborhoods of Chicago. T.J. introduces us to Jaime Cornejo, a fellow activist and a participant in Gordon's storytelling project.
- See T.J.'s article here
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Transcript
- Welcome to Impact the
Conversation, a podcast
Speaker:of the University of Minnesota's
Institute on community
Speaker:integration that brings you strategies
Speaker:and stories advancing
the inclusion of people
Speaker:with disabilities.
Speaker:Our guests are the authors of Impact,
Speaker:our long running magazine
that bridges the research
Speaker:to practice gap with professional
Speaker:and personal reflections on
Speaker:what matters most in
disability equity today.
Speaker:I'm your host, Janet Stewart.
Speaker:- Hello and welcome to
Impact the Conversation.
Speaker:I'm here today with TJ
Gordon from the University
Speaker:of Illinois at Chicago.
Speaker:tj, it's great to have you here.
Speaker:- It's a pleasure to
be here as well. Janet,
Speaker:- Can you just tell me a
little bit about who you are?
Speaker:- I'm currently a research associate
Speaker:at the Institute on Disability
at Human Development at the
Speaker:University of Illinois at Chicago or UIC.
Speaker:What I do as a research associate,
Speaker:I usually assist in
Speaker:projects and research
related to disability,
Speaker:especially bringing in
participants of color.
Speaker:I also sometimes help with
Speaker:creating presentations
Speaker:and webinars about the
intersections of disability
Speaker:and race, as well as
Speaker:we have also done a lot
Speaker:of educational work on
promoting awareness of
Speaker:COVID-19 and COVID-19 vaccination.
Speaker:- That's awesome. And so
can we describe a little bit
Speaker:about this building?
Speaker:We're sitting here in a room
Speaker:that looks like it used
to be a hospital room.
Speaker:Did this, did this used to, did this used
Speaker:to be the UIC medical center?
Speaker:- Actually, yes.
Speaker:It's, it was a, it's
still a medical center,
Speaker:but in particular this a
building that we in right now.
Speaker:It used to be a hospital for patients
Speaker:with mental health
conditions, so that it used
Speaker:to be an institution,
Speaker:and it's ironic that we have office space
Speaker:and a former institution.
Speaker:- Exactly. That's what,
that's what I was getting to.
Speaker:Like how do you feel about that?
Speaker:Is it kind of a good feeling
Speaker:to be doing some good work on this
Speaker:after what, you know, with
what you know about our history
Speaker:with institutions?
Speaker:- Oh, yeah. I, it's
kind of a mixed feeling
Speaker:because of course you
get to see the history
Speaker:of what people like myself went through
Speaker:more than likely 50 years ago or over.
Speaker:And I could still see like relics
Speaker:and vestiges of what happened, even with,
Speaker:there's still showers in some places,
Speaker:or it used to be showers
or the kitchenette even,
Speaker:or even the layout of the room that used
Speaker:to be actual hospital beds.
Speaker:So it's somber to be reminded of
Speaker:where people like myself
came from who have
Speaker:invisible disabilities.
Speaker:I like to call them, but at the same time,
Speaker:I am also honored to be working
Speaker:with the Institute on
Disability Human Development,
Speaker:especially at a place that
used to be an institution,
Speaker:but now we reclaiming it
as a place where we want
Speaker:to get people out in the community.
Speaker:So it's interesting that
we turn this into a,
Speaker:an advocacy center, a
research center to help
Speaker:people with disabilities be out and about
Speaker:and productive in the community
Speaker:as opposed to being locked up.
Speaker:- Exactly. And,
Speaker:and so speaking of advocacy,
I know you were a, you are
Speaker:or were a SAR TAC fellow.
Speaker:Can you explain a little
bit about what SAR TAC is
Speaker:and then about the fellowship?
Speaker:- Yeah, so SAR TAC is actually under,
Speaker:under this organization
called Self, Self-Advocate.
Speaker:Self-Advocates be Empowered
Speaker:or Save, which is a national
organization of self-advocates.
Speaker:And SAR tech is the technical wing
Speaker:of save where we, people could get a lot
Speaker:of plain language information about
Speaker:what's going on in advocacy now,
Speaker:and also if they need
to know of let's say,
Speaker:intersectionality, how to
advocate for others in yourself
Speaker:and even a sexuality topics.
Speaker:- And you did a SART tech fellow,
Speaker:you were a SART tech fellow in what year?
Speaker:- 20 20 20 20 21. Yes.
Speaker:- Gotcha. And tell me a
little bit about that.
Speaker:What, what was, what was
that fellowship all about?
Speaker:- So if you were a fellow, you work with
Speaker:someone within the nonprofit
or organization you work with.
Speaker:And so at the time I worked with
Speaker:Advance Your Youth
Leadership Power, which is a
Speaker:racial justice group within Access Living.
Speaker:I worked with the call the
organizer of that group,
Speaker:Candace Coleman on the
disabled YIM project.
Speaker:- And how did you, how did, how
did Disabled I am even start
Speaker:who, who was that a
project Candace started,
Speaker:- I would say the project
that we started alongside
Speaker:with Candace, it started out
Speaker:with the work we are already
doing about addressing the
Speaker:police brutality among
people with disabilities
Speaker:of color.
Speaker:Especially we addressing how
Speaker:in the media we hear
about the violence, we get
Speaker:to hear about the families.
Speaker:We get to definitely witness the race
Speaker:of most of the victims
affected by police violence,
Speaker:but we never get to hear their
story about the disability.
Speaker:Especially in some reports
like the Rudiment report,
Speaker:one third to a half
Speaker:of police violence stories
in the news involves people
Speaker:with disabilities.
Speaker:And I'm not surprised
Speaker:that number is higher
along people of color.
Speaker:I'm not surprised.
Speaker:- So when did disabled I am
begin, was there a certain case
Speaker:of injustice that really spurred it
Speaker:or when, when did it get started?
Speaker:- I wanna say we got
started in 20 19, 20 20,
Speaker:but I think it is in
conjunction of responding
Speaker:to the police violence.
Speaker:We also wanted to answer the questions of
Speaker:who really knows about
disability in our communities
Speaker:and what, how do people define disability?
Speaker:Knowing that just like
disability within itself is a
Speaker:spectrum, so as disability identity.
Speaker:So we decided
Speaker:to start this a YM as a
Speaker:photo project where people such as
Speaker:Justin Cooper was able to take pictures of
Speaker:the self-advocates
Speaker:and the staff in the
assets living building
Speaker:and held up a white frame
Speaker:at which at the bottom it
said, hashtag this able, I am.
Speaker:That moment I was, I wasn't
there in the building,
Speaker:but I saw the pictures regardless.
Speaker:I think it was a probable
statement to say, this is
Speaker:who I am, I'm disabled,
this is my identity.
Speaker:And I carried the badge of honor.
Speaker:I wanted to help expand it personally.
Speaker:And while we couldn't do
Speaker:as many in-person pictures
due to the pandemic,
Speaker:we're still able to do a few in Chicago.
Speaker:But when we did the SART
tech fellowship aspect of it
Speaker:with, it was myself who led the charge.
Speaker:And also Brittany King,
which she is also a part
Speaker:of a YLP
Speaker:and another group
Speaker:of assets living called the
Empower Fifi, specifically
Speaker:for disabled women.
Speaker:Yes. So we work together in
taking pictures and collective
Speaker:and stories of disabled people,
Speaker:not only in Chicago,
Speaker:but it ended up being people
Speaker:who submitted from
outta state and even one
Speaker:or two from of the states.
Speaker:- So how many pictures did you collect?
Speaker:- We took about, we ended
up collecting about 20
Speaker:to 30 total between 2019 and 2021.
Speaker:- And, and from all over.
- Yes.
Speaker:- Wow. And in the beginning,
Speaker:w were you going to out to
try to find people of color
Speaker:or did that come later?
Speaker:Was that what, was the
intersection of race
Speaker:involved from the start,
Speaker:or was that something that came on later?
Speaker:- I think we intentionally
Speaker:and nationally happened to
Speaker:focus on intersectionality early on,
Speaker:and we especially highlighted
the intersectionality
Speaker:and the, what we call phase
one, where we went out
Speaker:and took pictures in the
different neighborhoods
Speaker:and also collected stories online as well.
Speaker:We noticed not only intersectionality
of race and disability
Speaker:and so, but also gender as well.
Speaker:And to see the many different definitions
Speaker:of disability from out there
based on their own experiences
Speaker:as how,
Speaker:however they identify themselves
as a president in general.
Speaker:- And you, you said it yourself, you,
Speaker:you focused on neighborhoods,
Speaker:and I wanna get into that as well
Speaker:- Based too. Yes.
Speaker:- Yeah. You know, Chicago
is a city of neighborhoods.
Speaker:It's known as that.
Speaker:And, and neighborhoods are
important here in a way.
Speaker:They aren't in a lot of other cities.
Speaker:It's, they're important politically.
Speaker:And you had this great idea
for capitalizing on this.
Speaker:So can you talk a little
bit about the neighborhood
Speaker:and how that intersects with,
with race and disability? Oh,
Speaker:- Absolutely.
Speaker:So they also get us to
phase two of the project
Speaker:where we work with not only
assets living, but also there.
Speaker:It's another sub program, which is,
Speaker:it's going go out to decal decal
Speaker:Disability, disability culture, arts
Speaker:lab, using arts
Speaker:to express the disability
issues that we face.
Speaker:And we have staff
Speaker:and students from the school
Speaker:of the Art Institute in Chicago
collaborate with us as well.
Speaker:And I glad
Speaker:that you mentioned about
the neighborhood Chicago,
Speaker:because I feel, you know, the wards
Speaker:that we call also those
neighborhoods, Chicago,
Speaker:are very important
Speaker:because of course it holds
a lot of political power.
Speaker:It determines how to neighborhood look,
Speaker:especially for income.
Speaker:But I also feel if you want
Speaker:to make an inclusive ward a
neighborhood, you also have
Speaker:to include people with disabilities,
Speaker:which some places are very inclusive,
Speaker:and others either they
don't think about it
Speaker:or they see disability as
a thing they don't want
Speaker:to talk about, which
reflects the accessibility
Speaker:and inclusion in each area.
Speaker:And I liked how we
created a story map where
Speaker:not only get to highlight the things
Speaker:that disabled people do
in the neighborhoods,
Speaker:but also it gives community
stakeholders the chance
Speaker:to connect with them,
Speaker:to address anything disability
related in the neighborhoods.
Speaker:- So what did you actually do
Speaker:with the students from the Art Institute?
Speaker:What was the collaboration there?
Speaker:What did you make, when you
say a story map, what is
Speaker:- That?
Speaker:Yes, it was a, a actual story map.
Speaker:So let's take similar
Speaker:to Geo or something
Speaker:where you're basically
attaching a object to a map.
Speaker:In our case, we attached the profile
Speaker:and series of people who
submitted the photos, information
Speaker:to the neighborhoods they're in.
Speaker:And then from there, people could find,
Speaker:let's say if they wanna learn more about
Speaker:disability topics in let's say
Speaker:the South shore area,
they could look at, oh,
Speaker:there's somebody with a
disability I could reach out to.
Speaker:And that will also mean
Speaker:either there'll be more disabled
people that will come out
Speaker:as they was to discuss that
issues or just connect,
Speaker:or that'd be also a time for a Ottoman
Speaker:and our mayor to also connect
Speaker:with the disability
communities in each ward.
Speaker:Also, to ensure that each ward
Speaker:is the only accessible from the business
Speaker:and practical standpoint,
Speaker:but also inclusive as well to all parts
Speaker:of life and all parts of Chicago. Oh,
Speaker:- That's fantastic.
Speaker:And so what kind of feedback have you
Speaker:gotten so far on all this?
Speaker:You have about a dozen
stories up and mapped, is that
Speaker:- Correct? Yes.
Speaker:- And is, is it your
hope that it then grows
Speaker:and other people will contribute stories,
Speaker:or how is that gonna work?
Speaker:- My, my personal hope is
so more people see the map,
Speaker:but more people will
like to add to the map.
Speaker:And who knows, you may see a version
Speaker:of this every I am in other cities within
Speaker:the US or even throughout the world.
Speaker:- And what, what really struck
me about the Disabled I Am
Speaker:campaign, it really hits at,
Speaker:at really evolution
from disability rights.
Speaker:Now we have alongside that
disability justice. Yeah.
Speaker:So what is the difference to you?
Speaker:What, what, what does
justice do that, you know,
Speaker:we've had disability rights
Speaker:and we've fought very hard
battles for those rights
Speaker:and a lot in the legal system
Speaker:and, you know, fighting on the
front lines of capital steps
Speaker:and, and various kinds of legislation.
Speaker:Justice seems a little more personal,
Speaker:and this project really
kind of captures that.
Speaker:What, what does it mean to you?
Speaker:- I feel like with
disability rights is more
Speaker:so I'll use the amusement park,
Speaker:or my favorite analogy, the
football stadium, for instance,
Speaker:soldier Field disability
rights will be making sure
Speaker:that, you know, people with
disabilities could get in
Speaker:to the stadium as carefully as possible.
Speaker:And also they're able to see the game
Speaker:or have access to bathrooms
without needing little
Speaker:to no as assistance at all.
Speaker:It's more the, like you mentioned,
alluded that you alluded
Speaker:to afford the legal side
Speaker:and the construction side
Speaker:of accessibility.
Speaker:Disability justice is deeper
Speaker:because it's all about
treating the person fairly
Speaker:and meeting where people are at.
Speaker:So I'll also
Speaker:use the soldier field example.
Speaker:So if you wanna talk
about disability justice,
Speaker:it's not only getting
me into Soldier Field
Speaker:to watch the game in a accessible manner.
Speaker:It is also making sure
I feel right at home.
Speaker:I feel included. I feel a part of
Speaker:the Chicago Bears family as a fan,
Speaker:I feel disability justice is all about
Speaker:treating a person equitably
Speaker:and fairly as opposed to just
Speaker:helping somebody get into the door,
Speaker:which is disability rights.
Speaker:- Where does color and
race come into it for you?
Speaker:Because you've, you've
probably faced discrimination
Speaker:as, you know, as a person
with an invisible disability.
Speaker:You've probably faced
discrimination as a black man
Speaker:- All the time.
Speaker:- H how, how do you even process that?
Speaker:Because you don't sort of say,
oh, this little action was
Speaker:because I'm disabled,
this little action was
Speaker:because I am black.
Speaker:It it, you don't seg you don't
separate that out, do you?
Speaker:- I do not. It's double
causes kute consciousness
Speaker:that darn Debbie Eby DUIs
Speaker:or multiple consciousness
I like to call it,
Speaker:where I feel my identities
Speaker:play a role in some type of
way, or they may come together
Speaker:and I feel, I feel more marked personally
Speaker:because I am an African American male.
Speaker:I'm autistic that cause
with stigmas with itself.
Speaker:I'm also a father to a
4-year-old, which caused me a lot
Speaker:of stigma within the black community.
Speaker:And I'm also, I have two masters,
Speaker:so education, you know,
Speaker:there's stigmas from all sides.
Speaker:So I feel Davy Doda don't type
Speaker:of thing sometimes where it's like,
Speaker:- And when you say, when you
say a stigma as a parent,
Speaker:you mean the, the because of your race or?
Speaker:- Yeah, because of my race.
Speaker:Usually they think of
black dads as deadbeats
Speaker:or unavailable.
Speaker:So I fighting that stereotype, it's always
Speaker:because I have so many
marginalized identities, I had to
Speaker:fight hard to prove to people
Speaker:that I am exist, well alone, I'm worthy.
Speaker:But also the intersectionality
plays in perfectly
Speaker:because I could reach
out to people who deal
Speaker:with similar struggles with autism.
Speaker:Those, you know,
Speaker:what the black men are
facing, what fathers,
Speaker:especially disabled
fathers are going through
Speaker:disabled educators.
Speaker:I can relate to them.
Speaker:So I think intersectionality
could be the place,
Speaker:it's a place for me
where I could reach out
Speaker:to many people at lady levels, even though
Speaker:what I could face is hard
for many people to imagine,
Speaker:especially if, especially since what I go
Speaker:through is a lot of layers.
Speaker:- And we're sitting here in
this building that, you know,
Speaker:used to be an institution.
Speaker:Right. We certainly come a
a good distance from that.
Speaker:Do you feel hopeful
about the work that you
Speaker:and others are doing?
Speaker:Or is there, you know, a lot
Speaker:of folks have felt since
covid a a backlash?
Speaker:You know, we had George Floyd,
we had a lot of, we had a lot
Speaker:of situations during Covid
where people of color,
Speaker:people with disabilities felt
like they were at the back
Speaker:of the line to get good
healthcare once again.
Speaker:Oh yes. So where,
Speaker:where do you feel we are right
now in terms of progress?
Speaker:- Can we, we call it progress
Speaker:or is it more like a circle continuum
Speaker:where throughout history we have,
Speaker:there's hope we back to
square one, there's hope,
Speaker:we battle square one, we
could go back to as far
Speaker:as civil rights and disability
rights and the aftermath.
Speaker:We had years of, you know, there's hope.
Speaker:Then things are taken away at challenge.
Speaker:We fight again the same
pattern over and and over.
Speaker:And I think right now we
at the point where the,
Speaker:the civil ra, the civil racial unrest
Speaker:that took place in 2020
Speaker:because of George Floyd, other
instances of police violence
Speaker:as well as how covid
Speaker:affected the marginalized
community be at the moment of,
Speaker:here we go again, we gotta
keep fighting to exist
Speaker:and to be free.
Speaker:This world is going to be prejudiced
Speaker:until, you know, the end of time.
Speaker:I don't know. But I just feel
like if we just keep getting
Speaker:into fights and remind people
that the world could be great,
Speaker:if we not only come
together but work together
Speaker:and realize we here
for the similar things,
Speaker:then maybe we don't have,
Speaker:we might not see the continuums as much.
Speaker:We might have the peaceful
world that we want.
Speaker:- After visiting TJ
Speaker:and his office at UIC, we
got a chance to get out
Speaker:to a couple of the neighborhoods
Speaker:where disabled I Am participants live.
Speaker:We talked with them about the project
Speaker:and about other aspects
of disability justice
Speaker:that play a role in their lives.
Speaker:One of the conversations
was with Jaime Cornejo,
Speaker:who lives in the Woodlawn
neighborhood of Chicago,
Speaker:not far from President Obama's
home in Hyde Park on the
Speaker:city's south side.
Speaker:- Tj, would you introduce me to Jay
Speaker:and tell me a little about
Speaker:how you two got to know each other?
Speaker:- Sure. So Jay, this is Jaime Cornell,
Speaker:also known as Jay.
Speaker:We met through a mutual friend
Speaker:and both worked at Assets
Living at the time.
Speaker:And I was volunteer 2015.
Speaker:So we advocated together on
Speaker:keeping special education open
in Chicago public schools,
Speaker:and then they grown to advocating
against police violence.
Speaker:So we went back to A YLP, which is
Speaker:an advance your leadership power,
Speaker:and which is across disability group
Speaker:of mainly mainly people of color,
Speaker:but it also welcomes
white disabled advocates.
Speaker:As long as you're part of
the, the same, you know,
Speaker:you wanna be part of the same mission.
Speaker:And that didn't change until,
I wanna say what TJ: Speaker:2016, where we opened it up
for adults, just adults period.
Speaker:Originally we were
advanced youth leadership
Speaker:power where the age range was from
Speaker:16 to 30.
Speaker:So I was in my late
twenties when I joined.
Speaker:But then the people who
aged out want to continue
Speaker:with the advocacy.
Speaker:So we pretty much the same group,
Speaker:but our focus as
Speaker:advance your leadership power
Speaker:is the cross disability
racial justice component
Speaker:where we not only focus on
disability rights, but also
Speaker:because a lot of the stuff
that we advocated for tied
Speaker:so much to race, it was appropriate
Speaker:to add the disability
justice in particular race
Speaker:or disability justice
component into our group. Why
Speaker:- Did that all come
together, do you think?
Speaker:TJ and I were just talking about this,
Speaker:but for you, where, where does race
Speaker:and disability intersect for you?
Speaker:- Well, really my whole
life as a brown kind
Speaker:of other South American US born,
Speaker:you know, I guess you could say straight,
Speaker:I'm straight gender non-conforming.
Speaker:No, I know I'm straight,
Speaker:but I know I've learned
to be gender nonconforming
Speaker:and okay with that in terms of roles.
Speaker:But for me and the racial
component, the ethnic
Speaker:and racial component came into play
Speaker:when, I mean, just the fact
that in spaces that I've been,
Speaker:I've been criticized for
speaking a certain way
Speaker:or for being a brown kid
that spoke only English
Speaker:until I was nine years old,
where I had to learn Spanish
Speaker:to survive, but not when I left Chicago.
Speaker:But the racial component
Speaker:for a YP in particular in Chicago came
Speaker:because a lot of the incidents of violence
Speaker:and police, you know, black
Speaker:and brown youth in Chicago have been,
Speaker:and across the country
really have been affected
Speaker:disproportionately in terms
Speaker:of when there's mental health crises,
Speaker:when there's a domestic violence dispute.
Speaker:And in particular black
Speaker:and brown men kid, both TJ
Speaker:and I in different contexts,
we've been assaulted,
Speaker:we've been harassed in
the city of Chicago just
Speaker:for looking like this.
Speaker:Yes. Like just for being who
we authentically wanna be.
Speaker:And nobody sees the education
and the blood, sweat
Speaker:and tears that we put into,
you know, just kind of this
Speaker:notion of the American dream,
which is obviously not true.
Speaker:It's a nightmare.
Speaker:So the notion of like, I
guess this whole idea around
Speaker:our kind of us becoming
more of a educational
Speaker:youth rights, students
Speaker:with disabilities in Chicago
public schools kind of
Speaker:focus in a YLP from the
racial justice component was
Speaker:the key turning point.
Speaker:- TJ was telling me a little
about the disabled I am
Speaker:what the, the frame, Um-Huh?
Speaker:Project Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Can can you walk me
through what that was, what
Speaker:that was about and, and how,
how that felt to be part of it?
Speaker:- It was, it was fun actually.
Speaker:It was pre and post pandemic.
Speaker:TJ and UIC have been really
instrumental in partnering with,
Speaker:you know, the disability cause.
Speaker:And it started just highlighting stories,
Speaker:highlighting stories of real
people, black and brown folks,
Speaker:and some white people that were
also a part of the campaign.
Speaker:It was just highlighting their
stories and who they were
Speaker:and kind of like summarizing who they were
Speaker:so people can get to know them.
Speaker:And, and, you know, I like
to say I'm the grandfather
Speaker:of the group, or me
and Curtis, but TJ here
Speaker:and a few other people are more, more
Speaker:so social media friendly.
Speaker:So he kind of used that
platform to show us on Facebook
Speaker:and show us on Instagram and, and
Speaker:although it, it is a
vehicle that can help,
Speaker:I still feel like it's still mainstream.
Speaker:So the hard part is to say like, hey, like
Speaker:where do we find disabled
folks that are not crowded
Speaker:and that need help and that need a hand
Speaker:That's been a little hard since 2020.
Speaker:We have to accept the fact
that there are disabled
Speaker:folks that wanna go different routes.
Speaker:Some people wanna be business people,
Speaker:some people wanna be activists,
Speaker:some people wanna be advocates,
Speaker:and some people just
want to live in peace.
Speaker:And that doesn't necessarily
make them like myself
Speaker:or like TJ out in the front lines or,
Speaker:and by the front lines,
I don't mean you have
Speaker:to be picketing or protesting every day,
Speaker:but writing, doing,
hosting events like both
Speaker:of us have done, doing artistic events,
Speaker:doing art therapy, being
a part of those groups.
Speaker:That's the activism that
a lot of people don't see.
Speaker:And they, they think that activism is kind
Speaker:of this straight non-disabled.
Speaker:Like you got to get a rock
thrown in your face to, to be.
Speaker:And, and, and yes, the
disability community did
Speaker:that a lot in the sixties
Speaker:and seventies to make a
point to the fed, to the,
Speaker:to the federal government.
Speaker:But we, in this day
Speaker:and age, we have had to find other ways
Speaker:to do it online to do it.
Speaker:But I think it's, it really
depends on what people need.
Speaker:And I think it really at
the, just to keep it real,
Speaker:I don't know to summarize
it, it it's either the people
Speaker:that know how to advocate
for and wanna learn more,
Speaker:or the people that don't know
how to advocate for themselves
Speaker:and they're a little lost
Speaker:and then they get kind of frustrated and,
Speaker:and might even get angry
or emotional about it
Speaker:and they don't know how, who to talk to.
Speaker:So that's where, you know, TJ
Speaker:is really good at meeting people
Speaker:and kind of inviting them in.
Speaker:You know, I think it really comes down
Speaker:to do you wanna advocate for yourself?
Speaker:And if so, how do you wanna do it?
Speaker:And then if they wanna go
this way, if they wanna go
Speaker:that way, we can support them.
Speaker:Especially when it comes to
young, black and brown folks.
Speaker:- TJ and Jaime, I wanna
thank you for inviting us in
Speaker:to hear about the justice
work you're doing in Chicago.
Speaker:It has been great being with you.
Speaker:Thanks for joining the conversation.
Speaker:If you'd like to reproduce all
Speaker:or part of this podcast,
Speaker:please email ici PUB at.edu.
Speaker:- Our show is Co-produced
at the University
Speaker:of Minnesota's Institute
on community integration
Speaker:by impact managing editor Janet Stewart
Speaker:and ICI media producer Pete McCaulay.
Speaker:Skyler Mahi Love is our editor.
Speaker:Graphic designers are Connie
Burkhart and Sarah Curtner.
Speaker:For more information on the institute
Speaker:and all of our products
Speaker:and projects, please visit ici.dot edu.
