Episode 2

Justice: TJ Gordon and Jaime Cornejo

Published on: 15th March, 2024

Impact goes on the road to Chicago to talk with self-advocate, activist, and writer T.J. Gordon, who created a story map to highlight people with disabilities living in different neighborhoods of Chicago. T.J. introduces us to Jaime Cornejo, a fellow activist and a participant in Gordon's storytelling project.

Transcript
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- Welcome to Impact the

Conversation, a podcast

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of the University of Minnesota's

Institute on community

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integration that brings you strategies

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and stories advancing

the inclusion of people

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with disabilities.

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Our guests are the authors of Impact,

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our long running magazine

that bridges the research

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to practice gap with professional

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and personal reflections on

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what matters most in

disability equity today.

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I'm your host, Janet Stewart.

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- Hello and welcome to

Impact the Conversation.

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I'm here today with TJ

Gordon from the University

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of Illinois at Chicago.

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tj, it's great to have you here.

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- It's a pleasure to

be here as well. Janet,

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- Can you just tell me a

little bit about who you are?

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- I'm currently a research associate

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at the Institute on Disability

at Human Development at the

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University of Illinois at Chicago or UIC.

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What I do as a research associate,

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I usually assist in

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projects and research

related to disability,

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especially bringing in

participants of color.

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I also sometimes help with

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creating presentations

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and webinars about the

intersections of disability

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and race, as well as

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we have also done a lot

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of educational work on

promoting awareness of

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COVID-19 and COVID-19 vaccination.

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- That's awesome. And so

can we describe a little bit

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about this building?

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We're sitting here in a room

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that looks like it used

to be a hospital room.

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Did this, did this used to, did this used

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to be the UIC medical center?

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- Actually, yes.

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It's, it was a, it's

still a medical center,

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but in particular this a

building that we in right now.

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It used to be a hospital for patients

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with mental health

conditions, so that it used

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to be an institution,

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and it's ironic that we have office space

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and a former institution.

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- Exactly. That's what,

that's what I was getting to.

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Like how do you feel about that?

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Is it kind of a good feeling

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to be doing some good work on this

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after what, you know, with

what you know about our history

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with institutions?

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- Oh, yeah. I, it's

kind of a mixed feeling

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because of course you

get to see the history

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of what people like myself went through

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more than likely 50 years ago or over.

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And I could still see like relics

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and vestiges of what happened, even with,

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there's still showers in some places,

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or it used to be showers

or the kitchenette even,

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or even the layout of the room that used

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to be actual hospital beds.

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So it's somber to be reminded of

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where people like myself

came from who have

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invisible disabilities.

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I like to call them, but at the same time,

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I am also honored to be working

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with the Institute on

Disability Human Development,

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especially at a place that

used to be an institution,

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but now we reclaiming it

as a place where we want

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to get people out in the community.

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So it's interesting that

we turn this into a,

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an advocacy center, a

research center to help

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people with disabilities be out and about

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and productive in the community

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as opposed to being locked up.

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- Exactly. And,

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and so speaking of advocacy,

I know you were a, you are

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or were a SAR TAC fellow.

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Can you explain a little

bit about what SAR TAC is

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and then about the fellowship?

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- Yeah, so SAR TAC is actually under,

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under this organization

called Self, Self-Advocate.

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Self-Advocates be Empowered

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or Save, which is a national

organization of self-advocates.

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And SAR tech is the technical wing

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of save where we, people could get a lot

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of plain language information about

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what's going on in advocacy now,

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and also if they need

to know of let's say,

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intersectionality, how to

advocate for others in yourself

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and even a sexuality topics.

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- And you did a SART tech fellow,

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you were a SART tech fellow in what year?

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- 20 20 20 20 21. Yes.

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- Gotcha. And tell me a

little bit about that.

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What, what was, what was

that fellowship all about?

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- So if you were a fellow, you work with

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someone within the nonprofit

or organization you work with.

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And so at the time I worked with

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Advance Your Youth

Leadership Power, which is a

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racial justice group within Access Living.

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I worked with the call the

organizer of that group,

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Candace Coleman on the

disabled YIM project.

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- And how did you, how did, how

did Disabled I am even start

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who, who was that a

project Candace started,

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- I would say the project

that we started alongside

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with Candace, it started out

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with the work we are already

doing about addressing the

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police brutality among

people with disabilities

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of color.

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Especially we addressing how

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in the media we hear

about the violence, we get

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to hear about the families.

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We get to definitely witness the race

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of most of the victims

affected by police violence,

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but we never get to hear their

story about the disability.

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Especially in some reports

like the Rudiment report,

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one third to a half

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of police violence stories

in the news involves people

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with disabilities.

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And I'm not surprised

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that number is higher

along people of color.

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I'm not surprised.

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- So when did disabled I am

begin, was there a certain case

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of injustice that really spurred it

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or when, when did it get started?

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- I wanna say we got

started in 20 19, 20 20,

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but I think it is in

conjunction of responding

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to the police violence.

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We also wanted to answer the questions of

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who really knows about

disability in our communities

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and what, how do people define disability?

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Knowing that just like

disability within itself is a

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spectrum, so as disability identity.

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So we decided

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to start this a YM as a

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photo project where people such as

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Justin Cooper was able to take pictures of

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the self-advocates

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and the staff in the

assets living building

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and held up a white frame

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at which at the bottom it

said, hashtag this able, I am.

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That moment I was, I wasn't

there in the building,

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but I saw the pictures regardless.

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I think it was a probable

statement to say, this is

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who I am, I'm disabled,

this is my identity.

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And I carried the badge of honor.

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I wanted to help expand it personally.

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And while we couldn't do

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as many in-person pictures

due to the pandemic,

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we're still able to do a few in Chicago.

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But when we did the SART

tech fellowship aspect of it

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with, it was myself who led the charge.

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And also Brittany King,

which she is also a part

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of a YLP

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and another group

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of assets living called the

Empower Fifi, specifically

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for disabled women.

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Yes. So we work together in

taking pictures and collective

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and stories of disabled people,

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not only in Chicago,

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but it ended up being people

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who submitted from

outta state and even one

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or two from of the states.

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- So how many pictures did you collect?

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- We took about, we ended

up collecting about 20

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to 30 total between 2019 and 2021.

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- And, and from all over.

- Yes.

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- Wow. And in the beginning,

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w were you going to out to

try to find people of color

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or did that come later?

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Was that what, was the

intersection of race

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involved from the start,

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or was that something that came on later?

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- I think we intentionally

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and nationally happened to

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focus on intersectionality early on,

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and we especially highlighted

the intersectionality

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and the, what we call phase

one, where we went out

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and took pictures in the

different neighborhoods

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and also collected stories online as well.

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We noticed not only intersectionality

of race and disability

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and so, but also gender as well.

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And to see the many different definitions

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of disability from out there

based on their own experiences

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as how,

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however they identify themselves

as a president in general.

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- And you, you said it yourself, you,

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you focused on neighborhoods,

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and I wanna get into that as well

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- Based too. Yes.

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- Yeah. You know, Chicago

is a city of neighborhoods.

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It's known as that.

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And, and neighborhoods are

important here in a way.

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They aren't in a lot of other cities.

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It's, they're important politically.

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And you had this great idea

for capitalizing on this.

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So can you talk a little

bit about the neighborhood

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and how that intersects with,

with race and disability? Oh,

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- Absolutely.

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So they also get us to

phase two of the project

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where we work with not only

assets living, but also there.

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It's another sub program, which is,

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it's going go out to decal decal

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Disability, disability culture, arts

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lab, using arts

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to express the disability

issues that we face.

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And we have staff

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and students from the school

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of the Art Institute in Chicago

collaborate with us as well.

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And I glad

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that you mentioned about

the neighborhood Chicago,

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because I feel, you know, the wards

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that we call also those

neighborhoods, Chicago,

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are very important

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because of course it holds

a lot of political power.

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It determines how to neighborhood look,

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especially for income.

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But I also feel if you want

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to make an inclusive ward a

neighborhood, you also have

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to include people with disabilities,

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which some places are very inclusive,

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and others either they

don't think about it

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or they see disability as

a thing they don't want

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to talk about, which

reflects the accessibility

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and inclusion in each area.

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And I liked how we

created a story map where

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not only get to highlight the things

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that disabled people do

in the neighborhoods,

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but also it gives community

stakeholders the chance

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to connect with them,

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to address anything disability

related in the neighborhoods.

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- So what did you actually do

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with the students from the Art Institute?

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What was the collaboration there?

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What did you make, when you

say a story map, what is

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- That?

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Yes, it was a, a actual story map.

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So let's take similar

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to Geo or something

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where you're basically

attaching a object to a map.

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In our case, we attached the profile

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and series of people who

submitted the photos, information

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to the neighborhoods they're in.

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And then from there, people could find,

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let's say if they wanna learn more about

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disability topics in let's say

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the South shore area,

they could look at, oh,

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there's somebody with a

disability I could reach out to.

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And that will also mean

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either there'll be more disabled

people that will come out

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as they was to discuss that

issues or just connect,

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or that'd be also a time for a Ottoman

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and our mayor to also connect

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with the disability

communities in each ward.

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Also, to ensure that each ward

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is the only accessible from the business

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and practical standpoint,

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but also inclusive as well to all parts

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of life and all parts of Chicago. Oh,

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- That's fantastic.

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And so what kind of feedback have you

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gotten so far on all this?

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You have about a dozen

stories up and mapped, is that

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- Correct? Yes.

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- And is, is it your

hope that it then grows

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and other people will contribute stories,

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or how is that gonna work?

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- My, my personal hope is

so more people see the map,

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but more people will

like to add to the map.

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And who knows, you may see a version

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of this every I am in other cities within

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the US or even throughout the world.

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- And what, what really struck

me about the Disabled I Am

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campaign, it really hits at,

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at really evolution

from disability rights.

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Now we have alongside that

disability justice. Yeah.

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So what is the difference to you?

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What, what, what does

justice do that, you know,

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we've had disability rights

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and we've fought very hard

battles for those rights

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and a lot in the legal system

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and, you know, fighting on the

front lines of capital steps

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and, and various kinds of legislation.

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Justice seems a little more personal,

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and this project really

kind of captures that.

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What, what does it mean to you?

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- I feel like with

disability rights is more

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so I'll use the amusement park,

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or my favorite analogy, the

football stadium, for instance,

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soldier Field disability

rights will be making sure

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that, you know, people with

disabilities could get in

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to the stadium as carefully as possible.

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And also they're able to see the game

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or have access to bathrooms

without needing little

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to no as assistance at all.

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It's more the, like you mentioned,

alluded that you alluded

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to afford the legal side

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and the construction side

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of accessibility.

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Disability justice is deeper

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because it's all about

treating the person fairly

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and meeting where people are at.

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So I'll also

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use the soldier field example.

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So if you wanna talk

about disability justice,

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it's not only getting

me into Soldier Field

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to watch the game in a accessible manner.

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It is also making sure

I feel right at home.

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I feel included. I feel a part of

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the Chicago Bears family as a fan,

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I feel disability justice is all about

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treating a person equitably

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and fairly as opposed to just

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helping somebody get into the door,

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which is disability rights.

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- Where does color and

race come into it for you?

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Because you've, you've

probably faced discrimination

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as, you know, as a person

with an invisible disability.

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You've probably faced

discrimination as a black man

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- All the time.

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- H how, how do you even process that?

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Because you don't sort of say,

oh, this little action was

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because I'm disabled,

this little action was

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because I am black.

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It it, you don't seg you don't

separate that out, do you?

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- I do not. It's double

causes kute consciousness

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that darn Debbie Eby DUIs

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or multiple consciousness

I like to call it,

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where I feel my identities

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play a role in some type of

way, or they may come together

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and I feel, I feel more marked personally

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because I am an African American male.

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I'm autistic that cause

with stigmas with itself.

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I'm also a father to a

4-year-old, which caused me a lot

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of stigma within the black community.

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And I'm also, I have two masters,

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so education, you know,

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there's stigmas from all sides.

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So I feel Davy Doda don't type

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of thing sometimes where it's like,

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- And when you say, when you

say a stigma as a parent,

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you mean the, the because of your race or?

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- Yeah, because of my race.

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Usually they think of

black dads as deadbeats

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or unavailable.

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So I fighting that stereotype, it's always

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because I have so many

marginalized identities, I had to

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fight hard to prove to people

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that I am exist, well alone, I'm worthy.

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But also the intersectionality

plays in perfectly

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because I could reach

out to people who deal

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with similar struggles with autism.

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Those, you know,

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what the black men are

facing, what fathers,

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especially disabled

fathers are going through

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disabled educators.

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I can relate to them.

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So I think intersectionality

could be the place,

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it's a place for me

where I could reach out

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to many people at lady levels, even though

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what I could face is hard

for many people to imagine,

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especially if, especially since what I go

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through is a lot of layers.

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- And we're sitting here in

this building that, you know,

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used to be an institution.

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Right. We certainly come a

a good distance from that.

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Do you feel hopeful

about the work that you

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and others are doing?

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Or is there, you know, a lot

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of folks have felt since

covid a a backlash?

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You know, we had George Floyd,

we had a lot of, we had a lot

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of situations during Covid

where people of color,

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people with disabilities felt

like they were at the back

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of the line to get good

healthcare once again.

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Oh yes. So where,

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where do you feel we are right

now in terms of progress?

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- Can we, we call it progress

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or is it more like a circle continuum

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where throughout history we have,

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there's hope we back to

square one, there's hope,

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we battle square one, we

could go back to as far

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as civil rights and disability

rights and the aftermath.

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We had years of, you know, there's hope.

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Then things are taken away at challenge.

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We fight again the same

pattern over and and over.

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And I think right now we

at the point where the,

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the civil ra, the civil racial unrest

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that took place in 2020

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because of George Floyd, other

instances of police violence

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as well as how covid

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affected the marginalized

community be at the moment of,

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here we go again, we gotta

keep fighting to exist

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and to be free.

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This world is going to be prejudiced

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until, you know, the end of time.

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I don't know. But I just feel

like if we just keep getting

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into fights and remind people

that the world could be great,

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if we not only come

together but work together

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and realize we here

for the similar things,

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then maybe we don't have,

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we might not see the continuums as much.

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We might have the peaceful

world that we want.

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- After visiting TJ

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and his office at UIC, we

got a chance to get out

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to a couple of the neighborhoods

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where disabled I Am participants live.

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We talked with them about the project

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and about other aspects

of disability justice

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that play a role in their lives.

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One of the conversations

was with Jaime Cornejo,

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who lives in the Woodlawn

neighborhood of Chicago,

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not far from President Obama's

home in Hyde Park on the

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city's south side.

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- Tj, would you introduce me to Jay

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and tell me a little about

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how you two got to know each other?

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- Sure. So Jay, this is Jaime Cornell,

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also known as Jay.

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We met through a mutual friend

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and both worked at Assets

Living at the time.

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And I was volunteer 2015.

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So we advocated together on

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keeping special education open

in Chicago public schools,

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and then they grown to advocating

against police violence.

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So we went back to A YLP, which is

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an advance your leadership power,

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and which is across disability group

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of mainly mainly people of color,

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but it also welcomes

white disabled advocates.

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As long as you're part of

the, the same, you know,

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you wanna be part of the same mission.

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And that didn't change until,

I wanna say what TJ:

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2016, where we opened it up

for adults, just adults period.

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Originally we were

advanced youth leadership

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power where the age range was from

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16 to 30.

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So I was in my late

twenties when I joined.

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But then the people who

aged out want to continue

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with the advocacy.

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So we pretty much the same group,

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but our focus as

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advance your leadership power

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is the cross disability

racial justice component

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where we not only focus on

disability rights, but also

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because a lot of the stuff

that we advocated for tied

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so much to race, it was appropriate

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to add the disability

justice in particular race

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or disability justice

component into our group. Why

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- Did that all come

together, do you think?

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TJ and I were just talking about this,

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but for you, where, where does race

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and disability intersect for you?

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- Well, really my whole

life as a brown kind

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of other South American US born,

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you know, I guess you could say straight,

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I'm straight gender non-conforming.

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No, I know I'm straight,

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but I know I've learned

to be gender nonconforming

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and okay with that in terms of roles.

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But for me and the racial

component, the ethnic

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and racial component came into play

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when, I mean, just the fact

that in spaces that I've been,

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I've been criticized for

speaking a certain way

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or for being a brown kid

that spoke only English

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until I was nine years old,

where I had to learn Spanish

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to survive, but not when I left Chicago.

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But the racial component

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for a YP in particular in Chicago came

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because a lot of the incidents of violence

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and police, you know, black

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and brown youth in Chicago have been,

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and across the country

really have been affected

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disproportionately in terms

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of when there's mental health crises,

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when there's a domestic violence dispute.

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And in particular black

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and brown men kid, both TJ

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and I in different contexts,

we've been assaulted,

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we've been harassed in

the city of Chicago just

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for looking like this.

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Yes. Like just for being who

we authentically wanna be.

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And nobody sees the education

and the blood, sweat

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and tears that we put into,

you know, just kind of this

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notion of the American dream,

which is obviously not true.

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It's a nightmare.

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So the notion of like, I

guess this whole idea around

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our kind of us becoming

more of a educational

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youth rights, students

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with disabilities in Chicago

public schools kind of

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focus in a YLP from the

racial justice component was

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the key turning point.

Speaker:

- TJ was telling me a little

about the disabled I am

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what the, the frame, Um-Huh?

Speaker:

Project Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

Can can you walk me

through what that was, what

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that was about and, and how,

how that felt to be part of it?

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- It was, it was fun actually.

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It was pre and post pandemic.

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TJ and UIC have been really

instrumental in partnering with,

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you know, the disability cause.

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And it started just highlighting stories,

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highlighting stories of real

people, black and brown folks,

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and some white people that were

also a part of the campaign.

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It was just highlighting their

stories and who they were

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and kind of like summarizing who they were

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so people can get to know them.

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And, and, you know, I like

to say I'm the grandfather

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of the group, or me

and Curtis, but TJ here

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and a few other people are more, more

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so social media friendly.

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So he kind of used that

platform to show us on Facebook

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and show us on Instagram and, and

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although it, it is a

vehicle that can help,

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I still feel like it's still mainstream.

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So the hard part is to say like, hey, like

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where do we find disabled

folks that are not crowded

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and that need help and that need a hand

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That's been a little hard since 2020.

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We have to accept the fact

that there are disabled

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folks that wanna go different routes.

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Some people wanna be business people,

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some people wanna be activists,

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some people wanna be advocates,

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and some people just

want to live in peace.

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And that doesn't necessarily

make them like myself

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or like TJ out in the front lines or,

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and by the front lines,

I don't mean you have

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to be picketing or protesting every day,

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but writing, doing,

hosting events like both

Speaker:

of us have done, doing artistic events,

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doing art therapy, being

a part of those groups.

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That's the activism that

a lot of people don't see.

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And they, they think that activism is kind

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of this straight non-disabled.

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Like you got to get a rock

thrown in your face to, to be.

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And, and, and yes, the

disability community did

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that a lot in the sixties

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and seventies to make a

point to the fed, to the,

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to the federal government.

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But we, in this day

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and age, we have had to find other ways

Speaker:

to do it online to do it.

Speaker:

But I think it's, it really

depends on what people need.

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And I think it really at

the, just to keep it real,

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I don't know to summarize

it, it it's either the people

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that know how to advocate

for and wanna learn more,

Speaker:

or the people that don't know

how to advocate for themselves

Speaker:

and they're a little lost

Speaker:

and then they get kind of frustrated and,

Speaker:

and might even get angry

or emotional about it

Speaker:

and they don't know how, who to talk to.

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So that's where, you know, TJ

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is really good at meeting people

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and kind of inviting them in.

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You know, I think it really comes down

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to do you wanna advocate for yourself?

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And if so, how do you wanna do it?

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And then if they wanna go

this way, if they wanna go

Speaker:

that way, we can support them.

Speaker:

Especially when it comes to

young, black and brown folks.

Speaker:

- TJ and Jaime, I wanna

thank you for inviting us in

Speaker:

to hear about the justice

work you're doing in Chicago.

Speaker:

It has been great being with you.

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Thanks for joining the conversation.

Speaker:

If you'd like to reproduce all

Speaker:

or part of this podcast,

Speaker:

please email ici PUB at.edu.

Speaker:

- Our show is Co-produced

at the University

Speaker:

of Minnesota's Institute

on community integration

Speaker:

by impact managing editor Janet Stewart

Speaker:

and ICI media producer Pete McCaulay.

Speaker:

Skyler Mahi Love is our editor.

Speaker:

Graphic designers are Connie

Burkhart and Sarah Curtner.

Speaker:

For more information on the institute

Speaker:

and all of our products

Speaker:

and projects, please visit ici.dot edu.

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About the Podcast

Impact, The Conversation
ICI’s Disability + Inclusion Podcast
Welcome to Impact, The Conversation, a podcast from the Institute on Community Integration at the University of Minnesota that takes a deep dive into the latest research, practices, and insights moving the inclusion of people with intellectual, developmental, and other disabilities forward. Each episode brings to life voices from a recent issue of Impact, ICI’s long-running magazine. Co-hosts and guests are Impact issue editors and authors with and without lived experience of disability from around the field and the globe. They will not use the word impact as a verb and they do not hope to inspire you, but they may make you think differently about disability.

About your host

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Marketing Communications

The Institute on Community Integration (ICI) – a research center at the University of Minnesota – is a designated University Center for Excellence in Developmental Disabilities, part of a national network of similar programs in major universities and teaching hospitals across the country. The Institute is home to over 70 projects and six Affiliated Centers, addressing disability issues across the lifespan.

ICI pushes the edge of inclusion through an intensive focus on policies and practices that affect children, youth, and adults with disabilities, and those receiving educational supports. ICI’s collaborative research, training, and information-sharing ensure that people with disabilities are valued by, included in, and contribute to their communities of choice throughout their lifetime. ICI works with service providers, policymakers, educators, employers, advocacy organizations, researchers, families, community members, and individuals with disabilities around the world, building communities that are inclusive.